My conflict of science vs experience

Union by Kit No Comments »

Dear Maude,

I wants to start a discussion here with you about our spiritual experience together – another way of describing our union. We reach this through sex, which for us has a tantric quality, but we have both expressed clearly on a number of occasions that this is not a sexual state, but instead is one that is reached through sex, which is acting as a gateway. Other people may use other gateways – golf, talking, hiking, nature, cooking – that offer a shared experience where the ego can drop and the sense becomes not just of acting in concert but of being part of something larger.

There is for me a considerable conflict between my direct experience of this and my scientific / materialist view of the world which, starting with Plato’s cave and Descartes’ suspicions about the senses, is more and more showing that our beliefs and perceptions are weak and malleable. To get past this requires stepping past words and logic, to move into the trans-rational, to use Wilber’s term, and I cannot consistently make that leap.

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Being positive

Our path by Kit No Comments »

Just before leaving this morning you said something upbeat (and I can’t even remember what) that reminded me how much I appreciate your positive nature.  It also stood out in contrast to a friend who called with a tech support problem and bitched and moaned through 30 minutes of phone calls.  The difference is that I’m not responsible for your mood; it’s not my duty to fix it, lighten it or live with it.  It’s not that I’m expecting you to be a perpetual Pollyanna, either.  You were frazzled this evening, for good reason.  That doesn’t bother me, and I’m happy to be a voice of stability at such times.  That might sound like I’ve changed my position, but I think the difference is not one of degree, but of attitude, that some people have a wilfully gloomy streak that emerges when problems arise.  You don’t, and for this I am so grateful.  It’s yet another reason why life with you is so easy and weightless.  XXXX Kit.

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Our Process

Our path by Kat No Comments »

I loved last night. We were talking about Kit and Kat and working on a strategy for putting the first ebook together. It was such a perfect example of how we come up with a plan or action, that both reflects each of us and is at the same time more than either of us. We have this way of entering the sharing as two separate personalities, and  while remaining individual, we also develop a voice of union. We seem to move dance like through our exchange. We develop a rhythm in our talking and before long, there is another voice there. And out of this comes something new, a co-creation. It is not something either one of us had in mind. It seems to grow and fill the space between us. It has an authoritative voice. This I call our process. And I trust it completely.

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Avoiding Being Right

Our path by Kit No Comments »

This factor of not needing to be right is indeed one of the major things that makes it work for us, but it’s still hard to dissect.  I can think of two factors; one is that you don’t do stupid or annoying things, so I don’t have to try and change your behavior.  The second is that you, in turn, don’t try to control me, which is wonderfully liberating, but also stops any need for me to defend myself by counter-attacking with the same accusations because you’ve pushed my hypocrisy button.

So does that mean we’re both perfect?  That seems unlikely to me.  More probable is that we have a higher tolerance level, or to put it another way, other people have a lower tolerance level.  So what’s that about?  Well, neither of us are locked into things having to be a certain way; for example, last time we were away, we slept on opposite sides of the bed from usual.  How do we do this?  It’s not as if we drift through life in a zombied state, having no preferences at all; we do, but either our preferences coincide, or else we’re not so attached to them, because there are other choices that would work, so it’s easy to find something that’s mutually acceptable.  In the event that one of us has a strong desire, the other is happy to go with that; there is, after all, a distinct pleasure in seeing the happiness of the other.

And there we have it.  We’ve never reached a point where the two of us have strong and opposing desires, and though I can dream up dark scenarios, I can also imagine ways past them.  The bottom line is that neither of us see any benefit in conflict; it’s a waste of energy, it leaves damage that can take a long time to heal, if ever, and it has to be resolved eventually by putting one’s soul on the line, so why not start there?

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Being Right Revisited

Our path by Kat No Comments »

One of the things that I love about how we are together is the lack of either one of us ‘needing to be right’ or being concerned with ‘who is right’.  When we listen to each other as we are talking together, we are actually listening. We are not just in our head, waiting for the moment when we can begin talking again and explaining why what we think is how it is. In fact, both of us seem to really get off on the fact that the other one has different ideas and doesn’t see everything exactly as we do. These differences are not really sources for actual conflict. They are not differences in meanings and values. I feel that in so many relationships, the sharing is more like a debate or an argument. Things that are often of no consequence or actual substance, become the areas of intense struggle, all in the name of ‘who is right’!

By eliminating this type of back and forth altogether, we seem to wind up in a miraculous space. We go to an area where we share what each of us feels and thinks and even as we are talking, something begins to occur. We start to hear new ideas, things that aren’t exactly from either of us, but yet have the best of what each of us has contributed. By the time we are done, we usually have a new creation, an answer to our problem or a plan for action that is much better than anything either of us came up with.

It really feels like magic and it happens every time.

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Being Right

Our path by kk No Comments »

Kat: Where were we? Oh, I know what it was about, it was about being right.

Kit: Being right? Oh, I have a little spiel on that

Kat: laughs

Kit: I was thinking about how we discuss things and don’t argue.

Kat: This is exactly what it’s about. Did you have that thought this evening?

Kit: I was just about to bring exactly this thing up; I can’t believe it!

Kat: Me too.

Kit: How it works, I think, is that I say something, and you say no, you want something else and then…

Kat: Hopefully I don’t start with no, but maybe I say “I see it like this.”

Kit: Ok, whatever, right, and so I go back and I look at it: “Oh, here’s my desire for something, what’s that about?”, and you do the same, and so instead of holding the position solid and trying to make that the demarcation line rather than yours, it’s very fluid and just kind of um…

Kat: it’s really like woo-woo that we had this same thing come clear, like within this evening and wanted to both talk about it and that we’re about to both do it because I…

Kit: I know what triggered it.

Kat: yes, so do I , I know what triggered it, but less interesting; I’d just rather also share the words that I had for that experience which were that you had one thing to say and I have different things to say and we said that back and forth about once or twice and then I saw that moment where ok, all these things exist in the universe like what you said, what I said, how I see it, how you see it, and then there’s that moment with do you want to be busy with “I’m right”? Oh no, that means absolutely nothing to me that’s not what it’s about at all, and I saw it; it’s about this little thing of “I’m right”, you know that people get involved in: “I’m right”, you know; I was going to do my blog on it, but it’s your blogging turn.

Kit: But you can write, sweetie.

Kat: Yes, we found the same thing, it’s fascinating that it actually happened.

Kit: The only book I’ve read about EST was a tell-all by someone who went through it.

Kat: mm hmm

Kit: It started out wham bam in chapter one by having the speaker describe what’s so important about being right.

Kat: uh huh, yeah

Kit: You know, they hit you with it in paragraph one and it really struck me. It’s one of those lightbulb things where some asssumption that you’ve always made doesn’t apply any more. Very interesting; it gives you a whole lot of flexibility when you let go of those bits of…

Kat: It’s amazing what it does when you let go of those things, especially when you let go of it with consciousness…

Kit: Mm hmm

Kat: …and – I’m utterly fascinated that we both got that same thing from our experiences.

Kit: Well, where I thought it came from was that you were talking some time, maybe yesterday, I think we were sitting on the sofa, about how we should continue this writing and that we should continue to talk with each other about our experience, but what we should do is go further and go into the why and how does that work, and all that stuff…

Kat: Sort it out and where did it come from.

Kit: …and so I think that my idea rose out of that conversation.

Kat: I also ended the blog with that last thing.

Kit: Aah, okay

Kat: How does that happen?

Kit: Yes, uh huh

Kat: well I got it this evening from the conversation that we were having and I passed on from the conversation which wasn’t the important part of the experience because it was the learning which was important and it was some back and forth where I had one viewpoint and you had another and there was a moment when I saw it and you had sort of spoken your word and I had spoken mine and I thought ok, good, well all of that is out here and it all is real and exists and there’s that moment: was I going to go further with I’m right, whatever is you doesn’t exist because I’m right…

Kit: mm hmm

Kat: …and I just saw that whole thing, I thought, you know, yeah, that’s one of the things that we do is, you know, we don’t really waste any time that I’m right.

Kit: But you are right.

Kat: We are, we are indeed.

Kit: No, I’m joking.

Kat: So am I.

Kit: You’re perfectly right about that.

Kat: Maybe we do things not only right, but perfectly right.

Kit: It makes things very easy to do, and very simple.

Kat: It does.

Kit: A whole lot of clutter gets removed from your mind.

Kat: I know, it’s amazing, it seems like such a simple thing to do.

Kit: Right.

Kat: You have to do it with consciousness, it’s gotta be like a real – you have to – I mean, after a while, of course, you align yourself more and more, so it’s not even an occurrence that happens in the mind.

Kit: Right, but also I think it’s a question of trust; it can only start happening when we trust each other…

Kat: How it starts happening is the question.

Kit: …and trust is something that builds up over a period of time. You might start with an assumption of trust, which is great because it moves things forward, but you know how I experienced you trustwise was basically the sum of all my experiences with you over a period of time, and the longer that went on, the more I understood how you worked and what you were and that kind of stuff, right? And developed a knowing of you.

Kat: Mm-hmm, I know exactly what you’re saying.

Kit: The trust that builds up between us – has built up between us – is really important in this kind of lack of argument; I mean, when you experience the other person as a truthful and honest and present and…

Kat: Constant.

Kit: …constant and yet completely as important and as autonomous as me, then what would be the point of taking a position?

Kat: Mm hmm

Kit: At that stage, it doesn’t make any sense anyway.

Kat: Maybe a lot of it is habitual behavior, that I’m right, all those kinds of things.

Kit: Well, perhaps that’s because people start out from a position of non-trust and perhaps if you start from that position, you can’t get past it.

Kat: Sure you can, you just have to become aware.

Kit: Mm hmm

Kat: You just develop a different appetite, you know; you follow your attraction to lack of that kind, you know, you devalue that experience.

Kit: Right.

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Each Day Is So New With You!

Dialogue, Our path by Kat No Comments »

I feel bright and shiny and new each time we are together. It is rather amazing after this amount of time, but it does seems so fresh and such an adventure always.  Neither of us take anything for granted. We haven’t  fallen asleep to some greater or lesser degree with each other. Our time together is always very exciting, while also being nourishing and soothing.

This must be another face of living in the present. I can’t find any other explanation for it. Everything is so new because it is being created and co-created as we go. Feeling your presence is an amazing thing. It uplifts me. It reassures me. It fascinates me. It surprises me. I never take it for granted, but I do know that you are always there with your whole self. There is no withdrawing, no abandoning. As you have said, we remain connected, both when we are physically together and when we are not. There is such peace in the experience of the present,  unencumbered with things created solely by the mind or the past. How did we come to dwell in this place together? I can see that as one has these experiences, they are so attractive that one is pulled to remain there, to stay with something so good. But how did it come to be in our beginning?

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Staying connected

Our path by Kit No Comments »

We always feel connected.  When you leave physically, I don’t feel that anything has changed between you and me, and when we come together again, there is no need for any adjustment.  This happens after sex, too; there is no break in intimacy.  All this contrasts with former relationships, which interleaved connection and alienation.

So what are we doing differently?

I think with others, I withdrew to regain my sense of self, because I had lost it in several ways.  One was the limitations on behavior that many people impose.  Another was the need for silence; as an introvert (and I was more so in those days), too much company too long was exhausting.  Lastly, the experience of merging with another, though ecstatic, was a different unfamiliar world, and maybe after a while I had to return to the familiar.

To stray from the personal a bit, I think many people connect from a sense of incompleteness; they want the other to assuage their needs, substitute for their inadequacies, fix their sense of loss, grief, pain.  This only works for a while, as the underlying needs reappear; they must be confronted on their own, not salved by taking from another.  For the partner, the constant supply of support can become a Sisyphean task.

With you, none of these happen.  I do not have to watch myself when I am with you, because you let me be who I am.  Oh, thank you!  I cannot say it enough.  You have your own need for space and silence, as do I, and because we remain connected, it is effortless to separate, and to rejoin afterwards.  And lastly, I welcome the ecstasy and experience it as an addition to myself, not as an alternative.  Whether this is due to knowing myself better or how you take part, I cannot say.

So to summarise, we remain connected, yet I always feel completely myself.  It is paradoxical, yet indisputable.

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Finding Meaning and Value Through What You Don’t Find Attractive

Our path by Kat No Comments »

I was reading your last post, and thinking about what you said about empty mindedness.  I think this is an important part of reaching that state we describe. Maybe in order to be able to honor the other as a complete distinct personality, you need to have the ability to empty your mind. We know it is important to come with no expectations, especially not any projections, “I must haves” or “only ifs”.

You described such an interesting path, your own. You found your way there in two distinctly different ways. The first, was through the negative experience. You came to know what was of true meaning and value to you, by experiencing what you weren’t attracted to, and what didn’t feel right. You discovered you didn’t want conflict, arguments, invasions. Through these experiences, you came to know that part of yourself that recognized what you want, and what you align yourself with.

The next way was through gathered learning. Examples you gave were your experiences of zen sitting, and the enlightenment intensives you’ve done.

To really have the experience of something new, you have to empty yourself of before and after. You have to be right there in the present. When you relate in union within the present, you create and co-create.

It sounds like some degree of self awareness is needed to walk our path.

I love what we do together. All of it. I hope we find ways to share it with others. Its amazing what happens when you “give peace a chance”.

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Emptiness

Our path by Kit No Comments »

You ask about the origins of empty-mindedness.  One was my experience of long, drawn-out arguments with shouting, crying, begging, with-holding, accusing, sulking, withdrawing, and attacking.  Words and acts from the past would be dragged in to make a case.  Threats and demands would be made to gain the advantage.  Finally, through exhaustion, we would reach a position where each of us would abandon the attack and just express our needs.  It felt like a summer squall had blown in and passed over, leaving flooded paths, downed branches and litter all over.  At that point we were able to hear the other person and accept their needs as real.

After a long time, I saw that the argument was merely the precursor to this place of communication and potential resolution.  I never liked arguments, and these days, I choose to go directly to that post-squall place of self-expression without attack, where I can clearly distinguish between what I want to happen and what other people should do.

A second contribution to empty-mindedness has been a decade or more of sitting.  I won’t give instruction here, but through repeated practice, the ability to separate thoughts and actions, still the mind, be present and distinguish between thoughts and direct experience makes access to a center point of stillness easier and easier.

Lastly, I have done a number of Enlightenment Intensives, 3-day events which excel in removing the fog of language and revealing the truth underneath.

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